Eric Lin, founder and CEO of LineWork Development, talks with us about the importance of Accessory Dwelling Units and their many uses. His career has led him from architect to general contractor, and he has worked in various capacities on projects ranging from condos to in-law suites.

*Header image credit: Eric Lin, Line Work Development

Full Podcast Transcript

Grace Mase:  0:07

Hello, and welcome to the Revivify Podcast. I'm your host Grace Mase. Today we're speaking with Eric Lin, Founder and CEO of Linework Development, one of the experts in ADUs, which is Accessory Dwelling Units, and we're thrilled to speak with him today. Welcome, Eric.

Eric Lin: 0:27

Thanks for having me, Grace. This is exciting.

Grace Mase:  0:30

This is exciting for us. Because here in Los Angeles and California, in general, we have a great opportunity to make a difference in the community. ADUs is one of the solutions. But before we jump into that, I want to get to know you, if you don't mind sharing with our audience, how did you get started?

Eric Lin: 0:46

Sure, sure. So the company works as a design build company. The reason behind that primarily is because my background is in architecture. I knew from a fairly young age that I wanted to go into architecture. I think, you know, being a Chinese American, or from a Chinese immigrant background, my parents have always asked, you know, "What are you gonna do when you grow up?" You know, and as a little kid, that isn't exactly something that I'm prepared to answer. But I was fortunate enough to have witnessed my childhood home go through a transformation and seeing the construction process and being able to read the plans, just drew me into this entire world. From that point on, I did everything I could to take electives and in high school, and now and in middle school, to really focus on that aspect of the world, and just to really understand it. And so I took, you know, in high school electives, I took architectural drafting, you know, learned how to letter. Now, I'm still not very good at it, but, you know, it introduced me to this whole new world that wasn't reading, writing and arithmetic. This is something that is completely graphics based on and it really drew my attention. So I went on graduate from high school, and was fortunate enough to be accepted into USC for architecture school. And there I've met quite a, you know, most of the majority of students are, are fairly like-minded, like me, and their experiences were very much like mine. Where they were exposed as well, at some point in their life to a remodel, some sort of construction and, and/or their parents were architects, right. And so we all kind of moved along in that direction. And so when I got out of school, I naturally gravitated towards an architectural career, worked in commercial and residential projects. Majority of my experience has been in residential work, not only custom design homes, but all the way on to like multifamily walk up condo units to ultimately like 300 unit apartment complexes. I've also dabbled in senior housing. And so I have a full breadth of architectural, or residential architectural layout and construction, understanding. And unfortunately, in '09, for me, that was when the bubble really caught up with me in the residential field, I was not able to, you know, recover because there just wasn't any work out there for that. However, during my training as an architect, I dealt a lot with sort of the back end stuff. You know, when people think about architecture, I think they mostly think about the pretty pictures and drawing and coming up with designs for the homes. A lot of my training as a professional, really geared towards the back end, you know, like construction documents. What I like to explain is, when you buy IKEA furniture, and you look at the pictures and the manuals, that's what I did for contractors from the architecture side. You know, so I dealt with all our contractors I dealt with, well, I was the architectural representative for contractors, to the contractors and dealt with their questions and really kind of understood that world. And so in '09, it just felt like a natural transition for me to move into the construction side, especially in residential. I was fortunate enough to have been hired to do just like a single family, you know, I didn't have any work anyway. So I was just picking up here and there some little stuff. Hired as a con-- as a designer on the project, then hired again just to manage sort of the process. But from there, I really kind of just fell in love with this entire process of a holistic design. Right. So designing and being able to execute the design and build. And since that point on, I started my own company. And from that point on, I've really, I've really been able to, fortunate enough to be able to execute on several my own designs and be able to construct and be able to provide, you know, updated homes for a lot of my clients. And so that's, yeah, that's kind of the long and short of it.

Grace Mase:  5:28

And I just love the story where you start from seventh grade, most of us seventh grade, we still can't figure out how to even do simple stuff, but let alone figuring out alright, here's my path I'm passionate about, and lessons in lettering. Of course, I have similar experience and my lettering is by no way what you could define as legible most of the time. But this is fantastic. And how you went through this long, fairly intense experience and training as the back end of the construction, or, back end of architecture, which focus on construction documentation to bridging the gap with the contractors oftentimes, from the beautiful picture into how really is it going to be constructed is where often gap happens. But you're able to bridge that gap. And now seeing the whole thing from beginning to end, owning that experience in providing the service to your clients.

Eric Lin: 6:21

Yeah, I think ultimately, what I'm doing now really reflected on that initial experience of the home remodel. Right, I had nothing to do with the design. But there was a set of drawings out there, I read it. And at the time, I recall at the time, stick framing was up where the wood framing was up. I walked between the 2x4s, walked around the space and really could imagine what it might look like in my mind. And maybe that is just kind of how I'm wired. You know, most people are probably very smart in math or, you know, they're really intelligent and in writing. But for me, I was just able to catch on to that translation from paper to 3D and be able to visually understand it. And so right now, I mean, I don't really consider myself an architect at all, I mean, I have a general contractor's license, and I really kind of consider myself more of a builder. And really, what that means is, I know how to build it, but also know how to get that constructed element to actually make sense, right? And not necessarily, I'm not necessarily coming in just as a contractor and just banging nails and putting stuff up. But I actually can express how big certain, you know, what the space planning would be. To have that full experience. So yeah, so it's not really necessarily architecture based or general contractor based. But it really does. What I'm currently doing now really does feel like this is what I should be doing, you know, the whole construction experience, or not whole construction, but the whole beginning to end experience.

Grace Mase:  8:05

Right. You found a home really. From what I've seen so far working with you all these years, is that you understand the client, and you try to really immerse yourself and understand truly how their lifestyle is, and design to their lifestyle. So it's not just, you know, design building to their lifestyle that makes sense to them. And not just incorporate not just looking at lines and drawing some paper, no piece of paper is all about how it fits the details into their lifestyle that they would enjoy. And I've seen over and over again, the homeowners are just so delighted with the end result you deliver to them. I mean, what you do is deliver happiness, that's all I have to see.

Eric Lin: 8:49

That's a good line, that's a good line. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I do hope that I am able to fulfill their dreams for a remodel. Because I mean, outside of investing in the house, this is really kind of the second largest investment, right, depending on how much work you're putting into. But ultimately, you're updating a home. I mean, in Southern California, it's going to be hard to find virgin land to build on. Ultimately, you're buying something that is going to be probably 50 years old, unless you're buying a new track. And 50 years old, there's, you know, there's technology that's been updated, you know, people live differently. And so, you know, there's a lot of information out there now that people you know, have seen and would like to translate into their homes. So I'm happy to be able to provide that for everybody, that's, or for my clients at the end. So that's, uh, yeah, I appreciate you saying that. That's, that really is the goal, the end goal of this experience.

Grace Mase: 9:49

And I've seen you over and over deliver that. And this is the reason why I'm thrilled to talk to you. So let's segue to the ADU part. Over the years, helping families, as you mentioned, the homes are old. And the new lifestyles require a different frame, you know, the system, the home building system to work with our lifestyles, and getting the technology and awareness to sustainable design and net zero house and so forth. How you navigate through the path into ADUs or these additional projects. Actually, before you go on, can you talk about the types of ADU projects that are out there? And how have you been successfully helping homeowners achieve those goals?

Eric Lin: 10:32

Sure. I mean, I think, you know, I'm gonna start from the beginning here, I was able to secure my very first ADU project before ADUs, I think before ADUs were a thing in Southern California. You know, I think it was already popular in Oregon, and Vancouver, you know, some other parts of the country. But I fell into a project, and it was essentially what was later on, called an ADU. But at the time, the client came to me and said, "Oh, we want to build a, essentially a granny loft for my aging parents." And they own the piece of land that was zoned R2, but it was too small to be able to build the actual lot unit per acre. And so it's just two units. And we were and you know, at the time, the city, the municipality had already provided certain size requirements and size limitations to how big this thing can go. And we just worked within that framework, and was able to provide a granny flat. And that year, when we were done, right afterwards, you know, there was a universal state law for accessory dwelling units, I think it's like 2018. And so I was actually fairly lucky in the sense that I was able to stumble upon a client that really wanted this to happen, and they had the land for it, that was zoned for it. And from 2018 to 2020, I think there were other cities and other restrictions that were overlaid onto what can be considered an ADU. Right, so for the most part, I think what the state was trying to do is essentially, there are two types, one is a detached unit, and the other one is an attached unit. In essence, what the state has tried to create is essentially for every single-family resident, or every single-family lot to become a duplex at one point or another in some way. And how that's achieved is essentially, if it's attached, it has to be less than 50% of the primary residence. That's how they're considering it as a second unit. Or if it's detached, it's a maximum of 1200 square feet. In those two years between 2018 and 2020 different municipalities have fought against having this. Because obviously, it's growth that the state wants, but some of the cities that I deal with don't necessarily see that as you know, positive for their city. So there were overlays put onto it. And so you kind of have to navigate through the  different cities. In 2020, they amended the whole ADU rule, basically telling these other municipalities, you can't do that anymore. And really created a uniform base of what you can provide in your own property. So there are two different types there. Well, yeah, there are two different types. It's called an ADU, which is the attached detached unit, 1200 square feet max, and then a junior ADU or JADU, which is I think 400 square foot max, but it's attached. Right. And so in essence, it turned all single-family residents for centering single-family lots zoned R1, into a triplex. The issue with that is when you do a JADU, which is the attached unit, the state's mandating that you have to be owner occupied on the primary residence. But if you do a detached you don't. So there's a lot of investor opportunities that people are looking into with this. And what the area that I'm working in, a lot of people are coming to me for this mostly because they want to be able to move their in-laws in, or their parents in. It really nicely transitions into a three generational home, a three generational property on a single family lot. Which before 2020 was kind of a difficult thing to do. Because, you know, most of the people are thinking, okay, we're just gonna do an addition onto our home, but we really want to have a separate kitchen. And a lot of cities look down upon that because they're like, "Oh, what's preventing you from renting that out." But this rule, the ADU laws, made that legal, you can rent it out. That's, that's what they want.  

Grace Mase:  15:07

It's really to address the housing issue here in Los Angeles, there's definitely high demand and low supply.

Eric Lin: 15:13

Right, and that really is the main idea of not necessarily in Los Angeles, but it's a state statewide law. So it really wanted to address statewide and so LA City was very quick to adopt. LA County was very quick to adopt. But different municipalities within that district were against it. But now in 2020, there, it's harder and harder for those municipalities to be going against it. So, I have been getting quite a few calls for providing ADUs. But I think ultimately, the misconception on ADUs is that it's an accessory dwelling unit, so it should come in fast, and it should come in cheap. But the reality is, we're going to have to go through and provide plans for SATs to be inspected by the city inspector. And in essence, we're essentially providing a ground up either a single or, or two storey home constructed, and those really can't be done cheap. I mean, that's not . . . from a life and safety standpoint, that's not, you know, that's not a safe way to go. And it's not allowed. And so, you know, a lot of people are actually very surprised, some of the costs that are coming in. And, you know, I think it is because it, you know, we talked off camera or off record before, but it really is kind of a wild wild west, in terms of what we can and cannot provide. The state has been able to very narrowly and uniformly provide guidelines to allow us to provide housing on our lot. But it's not that it's, you know, we're not just throwing a doghouse in the back or a shed in the back and putting somebody in it. If this thing falls on somebody, you know. It's got to be insulated. It's got to come, you know, have the human comforts. Running plumbing. And ventilation. Electrical. It's not just like a shed in the back that we're gonna throw up for, you know, I mean, it's not a Home Depot shed for $5,000. You just throw it in the back and you know, stick, somebody in there. It's not, it just doesn't work that way. In terms of construction, yes, it's cheaper than the primary residence because it's smaller. But they're still the amenities that need to be included with that. Right. So windows and doors, insulation, drywall, electrical, plumbing, that's all still needs to be provided. It's just provided at a smaller scale than a primary residence.

Grace Mase:  17:58

And that's a good question. People may not realize, I mean, often the ADU references, I mean, often people talk about granny units referenced as a pool house and so forth. Can you help us to understand the difference between ADUs and these units that often reference?

Eric Lin: 18:17

Sure, sure. Um, so I think the common misconception is that it is just a sort of a throwaway building, right? That sorry, so if I take a step back, the different types of views that can be provided, you know, I mentioned the attach unit, which is sometimes becoming known as the garage conversion. So it's a junior ADU, it's a garage conversion, or a detached unit. But you know, I recently finished a project where it was a garage conversion of a detached garage. And you know, we have to gut that thing out and really make it livable. And we provide a full size kitchen in there a full size bathroom, the wife's Mom moved in, right. She's really comfortable in there, there's A/C we have a mini split in there, and she gets to be closer to her grandkids, and just come be part of the family but she's in a separate room. We really can't do that with like a pool house. Right? Because you're going to have your mom shower outside in an outdoor shower? Or, you know, how is she going to get the sort of basic necessities, you know, so, what is considered an ADU really is to have actually a kitchenette and minimum square footages. Right? If you go beyond it, ultimately it is a place that you have to be, you have to be able to live comfortably. So there are minimum square footages that are required as an ADU. You can't know, like I said before, you can just throw a shed out there, put somebody in it. Because the state is still being able to regulate this, and they're gonna have to right, they're going to be regulating it  even very strictly, because they're now allowing for something to happen like this, and they don't want to be responsible for it to be just kind of run rampant and become something that is not what they had intended.

Grace Mase:  20:15

And as you, I think, ADUs avert now, so even more so it's definitely much more versatile or multi purpose. For the state with COVID always stay home, we need a home office. So it could be converted to a home office, or aging in place for your in-laws could be used for secondary or supplemental income for rentals and what not, to help families to go through this period of time. And it could turn into an office, home office, or sorry, home gym for many cases, or even, you know, a small classroom for your kids when they study during the daytime. So, that has such an impact on our today everyday lives now.

Eric Lin: 21:06

Yes, I mean, that's true. I mean, I think the law started as a reaction to the housing crisis, You said that before. And I agree that the versatility of what you can use with the space is tremendous. But at the end of the day, what the law is intended to do is essentially be able to provide another livable space on your lot, however you wish to use it is really up to you. So the versatility really is, is tremendous for something like an ADU.

Grace Mase:  21:41

And how do you see of course, I mean, as you mentioned, we're still in the wild, wild west it's fairly new. Where do you see going forward? And let's say next year or two years from now, what's the trend?

Eric Lin: 21:54

Well, I think, you know, these will be a lot more popular. I mean, I think they're, we're seeing a lot of them now. Part of the law that's built into providing us is that the city, no more, cannot deny you from having one ADU. And number two, they have to turn it around in 90 days, which means they are really pushing these to come out into the. I mean, they're really trying to get them to be produced. And so I think we're seeing a lot of, you know, it's an opportunity for a lot of different avenues for people, right. From an investor standpoint, I think a lot of people are picking up properties, because they feel that they can put an ADU in the back and it becomes income property for them. For a single family, I think the excitement is that they are now able to not only bring their parents in, but maybe if they have older kids that boomerang back, right, it's another unit for them, where there is a bit of a, you know, independence, but they're still in the same property. Yeah, I mean, the trend is that I think right now the trend, most people are thinking is income, right, because it does take money to put it into these units. But it really depends. It really depends on the area that the home is in, you know, some people see it as some people want to use as a home office they can, right. It is really perfectly outfitted to be a live work kind of scenario, or you live in the primary residence, use the back office or this space as your office space. So it's kind of limitless in terms of what you can do, because the law has been written so that it's, it's a little bit more relaxed. I think they really, the state really wants to push this out. Because from a zoning standpoint, it's very relaxed in terms of building separation, from property lines, from buildings, you know, it's a lot more relaxed in the building code, which is kind of in conflict. Right. So you either have to meet one or the other. But yeah, I'm pretty excited because I am getting a lot more of these a lot more calls for them, because people are just seeing opportunities to do something to be able to increase your square footage. And I think it's because they don't, you know the cities can't count it against their existing FAR. Oh, okay. Existing square footage, so you can actually add to your house and then do an ADU. Right. So yeah, because that square footage isn't counted towards your, your livable square footage. So if you live in a municipality where there is a limit, or maximum on your square, yeah, on your square footage. So I think what people are doing is they're adding to the max or out as far as close to max as they can and then they're putting an ADU in the back because it doesn't, doesn't dig them.

Grace Mase:  24:59

That makes sense. To add on to your thought is giving with COVID. Nursing Home obviously is very challenging to manage. And I imagine the trend that we may also see down the road is that families will want to keep their elderly parents on the property instead of sending them to nursing homes. And if so they can use these ADU units to support their family, their parents, and convert into some more aging-in-place arrangement with rails or wider path to get in, potentially needed for wheelchairs.

Eric Lin: 25:36

Yeah, yeah, no, I think the marketplace is gonna change for this. I mean, I don't foresee it replacing nursing homes per se, because there is a, you know, there's an added level of care in nursing homes. But you know, the one I do, I just recently finished it, she was not ambulatory, she can take care of herself. Right. So she was able to live there. And what she told me is, you know, all the other, all of her other friends are now coming over to see her space, because now their, it's kind of, you know, light a fire in their, you know, in the ideas of what they can do with their with their kid's garage, to sell, you know, essentially, it's on its what, a nest egg, right. I mean, in the past, they sold their primary residence and moved into an independent care facility, right, community. And then the grandkids come and visit, when they can. Now you can kind of be in a situation where you can visit, or you can be living on the same property and see the grandkids more often. Yeah, so I mean, I am being told that there's a lot of interest now, from that unit that I did, because they are seeing sort of the benefit of having something like this on the property.

Grace Mase:  26:56

It makes complete sense, which is very much looking at the evolution or how the nucleus family is formed, where we still need the additional support of other people to help to take care of the younger. So I think both of us are in the sandwich stage where we have older parents and younger kids, and there's that to be all gathered together at times frequently enough, it's really a wonderful opportunity. And at the same time to have the separation to get their private space, at their own leisure that also gives them the flexibility to be engaged.

Eric Lin: 27:33

You know, I think I think for me, from the Chinese culture, anyway, senior homes is not something that was, yeah, it was never really considered. Right. But I think that there is a sense of community in senior homes, but that's really kind of, you know, generations upon generations, you live in the same house like three generations home. Kind of take care of each other, it's taking a village, it's a village, right, it's a village to take care of everybody. So this definitely opens up the opportunity to do that, not to say that all my clients have been Chinese or Asian. It's not the case. I've done ADUs where they want to have a space for the parents to come visit but not necessarily stay, right. They want to use the space as sort of a flex space for the kids to play in, but not necessarily be in the main house. So they have a bathroom, whatever, they can fit it out outfitted as a theater, or have their friends all their kids come over but not be in the main house wrecking the furniture. And it can double as a pool house, if you have a pool. It definitely can double as a pool house. But so, there are just so many options. I think this law has been pretty smart in the sense that it just creates an influx of opportunities for you to really add onto your property on to the value of your home without being penalized or go through laborious Planning Commission, or some sort of design review. If you have that in your city. It creates a great opportunity for everybody to be able to add square footage to their house.

Grace Mase:  29:00

So what would you advise? Let's say a homeowner is interested in pursuing this. What would you recommend to do? What top three things they need to start if they're planning what they should do now?

Eric Lin: 29:50

That's funny you asked, because I just got a call for that and I laid it out. Well, the first thing is you need to hire a competent designer. Right that will be able to help you navigate through, navigate through the process. The ADU rule has been, or the law has been set up so that you can build as close as four feet to your rear yard and your side yard property. If you're brand new building brand new, if you're taking over a garage, then you know that that rule just goes out the window. So what number one you need to do is essentially have your property surveyed. So you know exactly where the boundaries of your property are going to be, so you know where to place it. Right. Secondly, after a plan has been put forward, really kind of engage the city, on their process. You know, I mentioned before, the rule is, the law is that it's a 90 day turnaround. You can't, you're not allowed to hold this up in any way. And so a lot of cities are backlogged in their normal work, "normal projects", because they have to kind of push these guys back to address all the ADU projects that are coming through. That makes sense, right. And once you have a design down, then obviously, you know, engage the contractor to get estimates and move forward. But really kind of understand going in what you would like to have in that ADU, right. I had spoken with another client, he has a huge backyard and great opportunity, but it's full of trees. But his goal is to be able to house his boomerang kid. When she comes back. She's like a music major. So the space needs to have a music room for her to practice. Hopefully soundproofed right. Amenities, right bathrooms and bathrooms and kitchenette, or yeah, or a kitchenette. And they still want to maintain their garage. So ultimately, I said, "Hey, add onto your garage. You have 1200 square feet, that's a lot. That's a lot of house. You know, 1200 square feet, you can put a two bedroom, one bath in there with a great room. Well actually no, you can do a lot more, actually. You know, the very first ADU I mentioned, it was 650 square feet, we put two bedrooms and one bathroom, and a great room in the front. So 650 square feet, and then it was a two story, so it stacked on top of a three car garage. And they got everything they wanted, they wanted a garage, they wanted actual covered parking, laundry spaces are in the garage, and livable space upstairs. And so I mean, you can do a lot with 1200 square feet. Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity there. But we have to, you have to do the homework first, survey the property and engage a competent designer.

Grace Mase:  33:01

Right. That's great. Because just like anything, this is your project, if you want to, just like going on a trip, you need to kind of map out what you need to do before you start to embark on the whole process. And when you do proper planning, then you have a better chance to succeed. So, to arm your knowledge with what's required? What's my property line? And how, what do I want to put in there?

Eric Lin: 33:27

Yes, no, absolutely. Because many times I go into client meetings, and they'll show me a tile that's the color they like, right. But really, I mean, that's great. I appreciate the fact that there's a color palette already ready to go in. But we really need to know how much space we can use, right? How, what is the planning going to be, what do you want to achieve? What do you really want to get out of this space? So the music room? is it for your in-laws? Yeah. So there's a lot of pre-planning involved prior to just jumping into a project, you know, colors and style is important, but it's not it's only a part of what needs to be done before the project starts. Before you engage.

Grace Mase:  34:20

Right. Just like you mentioned that if this is truly independent ADU for a musician, what things that you need to do, how do you acoustically make a soundproof and then versus is a unit for that could be also a couple up as a pool house that's adjacent to a pool, an actual swimming pool, then the requirements are different you need to use the you know the shower or the wet room to be further closer so you're not dreading you know, having wet kids treading through the unit to use the restroom.

Eric Lin: 34:51

Sure, that's true. I mean it's like you said it's a very versatile space. And it can be designed that way because ultimately at the end of the day, it's you know, It's kind of a rectangle, right? Could be an L shape, it could be just a bar. But a lot of that planning does need to be played, needs to be thought through. So that we can provide the best for your space. Because not all lots in California or in Southern California are the same, even though they are, in a certain sense, but not the home isn't exactly planned uniformly. So that has, yeah, that has to be thought through as well, at least the area that I work in, I haven't been able to repeat too much from one project to another. So I want to share the sort of these TV shows about the big reveal, right? All that stuff. Unfortunately, I'm not really able to experience that because the clients usually live in the house that I'm building in. So there's really no big reveal, and I actually kind of feel bad for some of these guys, because they're, you know, it's tiring to be in that mess a lot. But this last ADU that I finished, I had a big reveal! The client's Mom was so thankful and grateful, she actually started breaking down. Yeah, I felt really happy to be able to have provided, you know, I'm very glad to be on provided that for her. Now, she was mentioning that because we, in these ADU, especially garage conversions, we're trying to make it as light and airy as possible. So this project had a vaulted ceiling, we supported the structure to provide a vaulted ceiling. She mentioned that the home that she had lived in for 40 years had vaulted ceilings, you know, the kitchen has enough cabinetry space for all of her priceless, China that she's, you know, accumulated throughout the years. No, so she just felt like it just was an extension of her at home. And so I was very happy to be able to provide that for her. And it really just validates the kind of work that I'm doing. You know, it's not just clocking in day by day, but you know, I am providing an environment. I'm providing home for, for these people. So, yeah, that was a very heartwarming experience. I don't always experience that because of the circumstances, but it really touched my heart.

Grace Mase:  37:22

Thank you for sharing, that's beautiful, because you're helping her to create the next chapter of her life, which is probably not something she imagined could be this wonderful and pleasant. And creating a space where she can share with her family, her grandkids, but at the same time have the absolute freedom of living on her own.

Eric Lin: 37:40

Yeah, yeah, no way, you know, going in where we're always thinking about the latest tech in technology. So we wired the house up with a cat six, you know, she can plug in servers or have speakers everywhere. Well, I walked in after she moved in, and she's got the old boombox with AM/FM turned up. Acoustics were great there! Cause, you know, like a 600 square foot double vaulted ceiling, So it's just bouncing off the walls. But it's all coming out of this old boombox is it's old, but it's not worthless. It still works. it's great, you know, so she was really kind of enjoying it, you know, she was enjoying her time there. So that's awesome.

Grace Mase:  38:27

That's such a heartwarming story.

Eric Lin: 38:29

Yeah, no, I yeah, it was a special project, I think, I'm happy to be able to provide that.

Grace Mase:  38:35

Right, for most of us who pursued the residency, it's really those special moments. And I think all of us have been trained in the field of architecture and through their learning design learning process, we learn a lot about commercial buildings, which are great. But I think there's something specially unique for residential because it touches people in a different way.

Eric Lin: 38:57

It's very personal. I've found through all the different projects, it really is a very personal endeavor. Right? And so I can probably talk about space planning and layout, 'til the cows come home. Really, at the end of day, it really is just the personal touches and the emotional draw to certain, you know, certain areas of the home, how it's presented, and how they see their kids growing up in it or how it's going to be used. And so it's yeah, that's not something that we see in commercial projects or institutional projects. It really is a very special space that we're in.

Grace Mase:  39:40

Well, I've known you for a few years now. And like I said, every project you engage, allow me to be part of the journey, and I consistently see the sensitivity of you with your clients. Each client is different. And you interpret their life and their stories in such a unique way and what you present is not so much a design of yours but it's a design of theirs. You use their lens and create those faces that just wow them over and over again. And I know people, the clients come through us and they just, like they really enjoy working with you. And not only your great match personality, you have the temperament helping them to understand, educating them, where they feel empowered to make the right decision.

Eric Lin: 40:23

Yeah, I don't really see this as a design for my house, it is really, I'm really trying to facilitate and execute a vision of their home. And that really is the goal when I go into every project to be able to help them and guide them to the end product that they can really, really be proud of. Because at the end of the day, it's their home, it's not mine.

Grace Mase:  40:52

Right? And every time I visit after the project's done, and go and visit those jobs, projects, and it's jaw dropping, because they are so stunning and beautifully designed, beautifully executed, and every, say every single project I want to move into it.

Eric Lin: 41:07

Me too! Me too, actually! No, well, thank you. No, I appreciate that.

Grace Mase: 41:14

Well, Eric, it's been such a great pleasure speaking with you, it's definitely been my honor to work with you. I've learned a lot from you over the years, and thank you for taking the time to continue to educate me and educate our audience. And when people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to contact you?

Eric Lin: 41:32

I think the best way to contact me is to go through my website, which is my lineworkdevelopment.com. From there, they can see the products I provide. And, you know, sometimes we're not a fit, and that's okay. But you can go through and really find the products. And I think a lot of those projects are reflected on BEYREP as well. It's mirrored onto BEYREP, right? You can either reach me through my about page, or you can select the BEYREP tab on my website, and invite me through there as well. So there's different, you know, there's definitely different avenues to reach me, I recommend really just kind of doing research, and looking at the end product, you know, essentially the portfolio that I have other projects. I have been able to provide for these clients. But, Grace, I want to thank you for inviting me on and doing a podcast, I've never done one before. So, this is kind of exciting!

Grace Mase:  42:32

Well, the way we look at it is, if anything we can do to support you for you to be successful, you will be able to elevate the industry and help many homeowners to achieve those dreams. And that is special. And that's what we want. Thank you so much, Eric. And thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Revivify Podcast where we speak with Eric Lin, Founder and CEO of Linework Development. And we're thrilled to learn so much about ADUs and the path of getting there. And I think more so we definitely want to do more. So as you can tell is very possible. It's not that hard to do. And this is something we collectively as a community we can do better. So thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.